TEICHOLZ: You know, I had the exact same impressions of science when I started in on this research about 15 years ago, and what I realized was it's mayhem out there in the world of nutrition science. So one of the things that goes on, which was astonishing to me and continues today actually, is just flat-out bullying in nutrition science, where Ancel Keys and his colleagues — so it's not just him; it's his whole group of colleagues — they come to control the most powerful institutions: the American Heart Association, which is really the first one in the game, and the National Institutes of Health, which was very — and still is — very closely allied with the American Heart Association on this issue.
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